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Index: Home | What Is Izumi | Misc Links | Random Thoughts | Too Much To Read | The Rant Vault | Quotes Rants: Roomba
$Id: Roomba.izu,v 1.15 2006-05-19 08:12:14 ralf Exp $
A bit of history here: I found about the Roomba a year or so ago.
After a while I decided to buy one on eBay -- one of the earlier models.
I enjoyed it a lot. Unfortunately it stopped working after a month or two
(double checking on the net taught me that the Original Roombas had a lot of
problems with the battery or the battery charger, and my case sounded similar.)
I easily got "simple" support from the iRobot customer service, that is they
did send me a replacement battery without trouble. Yet when that failed to solve
my issue and it turned out I should replace the unit, iRobot refused to honor
the warranty -- they honor it only for the original buyer and this does not qualify
for eBay goods which origin are hard to trace.
Eventually I returned the dead Roomba to the eBay
seller yet I never actually managed to get reimbursed.
In the meantime, I got one of the new Roomba Discovery. This time I learned my lesson and bought it from The Sharper Image's store, with their extra 2-years warranty. There is some obvious improvement compared to the first revision too.
This page describes my experience, notes and rants included, in reverse-date ordering.
The Roomba Discovery
has been working like a charm till now -- the tip I got last time to
"reset" the battery really worked great.
I've been vacuuming the wall-to-wall carpets almost once a week since then with no issues
except this week end when I experienced a weird behavior: A few seconds after
finishing the spiral at the start of a clean cycle, the Roomba would start, stop
and spin around repeatedly. It looks like it is detecting a stair.
Time to email the friendly customer support, which promptly replied this:
on 2005/06/06 5:52 AM irobotcustomersupport@qualitycustomercare.com said the following: > I apologize for the inconvenience. > > Although Roomba Floorvac senses stairs and the vast majority of floor surfaces, > there is the possibility that rounded edges, particularly slippery surfaces, > or dark/light colored floors can contribute to the sensors working less effectively. > If Roomba Floorvac is not sensing stairs or ledges, check for any dirt or fuzz > obstructing the cliff sensors. Do this by turning Roomba Floorvac upside down > and checking for obstructions in the four small pits located just inside the > edge of the bumper. > Make sure they are clean and free of debris. > Also, please consider the troubleshooting information found on the iRobot.com > homepage. > There, select the ‘Support’ button and it will open a page with the top 7 > troubleshooting areas for your roomba. > Following the instructions closely and they should alleviate the issue that > you are experiencing. > > For visual aid please visit the following link: > http://www.irobot.com/support/troubleshooting_detail.cfm?id=81
That last link is right on the issue. I'll have to look on how I can clean these sensors and I will report here if it solved it or not.
Update 2006/05/18: The page link changed, it is now: http://www.irobot.com/sp.cfm?pageid=48&id=69&productid=34&categoryid=
What works for me is to use a compressed air can (which you can get at Home Depot or in computer stores) and I blow air on the front sensors and inside the front bumper. I need to do that every so often, like every 4 or 6 cleaning cycles. It's not a magic solution, right now this is not working for me...
I've noticed something strange with my Roomba Discovery which started last week: After using it, I set it to charge on the docking station by using the auto-dock mechanism; usually it then emits a "happy" beep and the power light starts pulsating red (the one around the power button), meaning it's charging. Since last week this behavior changed: after docking, it does not do a beep and the power light doesn't not come on. It just looks like it's off. Eventually after an hour or more, the power light starts pulsating, indicating it's charging. So it does look like right after docking it's sitting there, not charging, for a little while...
Update:
on 2004/12/14 7:45 AM irobotcustomersupport@qualitycustomercare.com said the following: > Dear Raphael, > > Thanks for writing! What I would recommend doing for this Roomba is > removing the battery from the Roomba and then pressing and holding the > power button for 20-30 seconds. Then reinstall the battery, making sure you > hear two distinct clicks. Run the Roomba on MAX mode next time to fully > discharge the battery. The charging process should go back to normal after > this. [...] > > iRobot Customer Support
Worked like a charm. Say, wouldn't that be your typical NiMH battery issue? Yep indeed: the APS yellow batteries are Nickel Metal Hybrid, so whatever the doc says they need their own proper care -- that is being entirely discharged before being charged again and not being overcharged (apparently the Discovery's charger is intelligent to take care of that.)
My previous Roomba died in June. In September, I finally decided to get one of the new Roomba Discovery. Not only did I miss the fancy gadget as a geek but most important I did miss the usefulness of it and the ability to vacuum without much effort (I like my floors clean and neat looking.)
Here are some notes on the Roomba Discovery versus the Original Roomba. These are just based on visual inspection of the outside (I'm not going to ruin my warranty!) and overall observed cleaning behavior.
As far as I can see:
The "Discovery" also comes with a "recharge base", 2 virtual walls and the remote.
The remote is actually very useful, more than I imagined -- it makes it easy to direct the Roomba to vacuum some spot it forgot. What surprised me at first is that when you direct the Roomba with the remote it doesn't just move, it also vacuums at the same time. At first I found that annoying yet now I understand the idea is not to lazily have it go somewhere instead of picking it up, it's more to control the vacuum path. Its sensors are fully functioning when directed with the remote, which means it won't try to fall off stairs, cross a virtual wall and it will stop as soon as an obstacle is detected (which also explains why you can't have it backup with the remote.)
The recharge base station is also very well designed. As most of the Roomba's design it works with simplicity.
The base emits an infrared signal which is what the Roomba uses to find the it and dock to it. That means the Roomba won't magically find the base if it is out of range (it also means it will get confused if you use the remote too close to the base.) So basically the auto-recharge feature only works if the Roomba is vacuuming in the room where the base is. That may sound like a limitation and it is yet is easily solved by having it work in that room last.
You can tell the Roomba to auto-dock to its base by turning it on and pressing the Clean and Spot buttons (this cannot be done using the remote for two obvious reasons, first the infrared signals probably use overlapping frequencies and remotes can generally only emit one key code at a time. Both these reasons could be easily solved at the expense of a slightly more expensive hardware.)
Anyway, suffice to say the auto-docking will amaze the inner geek in you. It's a lot of fun to see the Roomba target the base, climb on it and stop.
Also fun to watch is setting a docked Roomba to clean. It will backup from the base by approximatively one foot while emitting a truck-like beep signal, then start cleaning.
Another related detail I noticed is when the Roomba is cleaning and its power level is getting in the red: it will generally stay close to the base, say 2 or 3 feet max. Its motion looks erratic at that point, similar to the one when it hits a virtual wall signal, meaning it changes path abruptly probably to keep in range. Then at some point it will just go straight for the base and dock.
The overall cleaning behavior is mostly the same. There are a few differences though:
Note that both the original and the new model have this amusing tendency not to go quite straight on a carpet.
On the former model, the cleaning time was dictated by the small/medium/large room buttons. The new model only has a "clean" button. So when does it stop? I'm not quite sure. The one thing discussed in their faq is that it will clean longer on carpet than on hard floor. My theory is they can have an heuristic based on the longest path it can find in a room. I will probably try to time how long it work in each room. I just vaguely remember it working for one hour in my living room.
The spot mode is interesting to watch. The Roomba moves along an outward
spiral first then reverses its path and does an inner spiral. Ideally it would
probably end up at the same spot, unless it's on carpet or there are obstacles.
A good use of that is for "fast cleaning". Just use the remote and have it do
several spot-cleaning where you think it's most needed.
One last note to say that the dust bin receptacle as a white grid attached to it. When cleaning, the grid may fall off. I lost mine twice, and the first time it took me several days to find it -- it's small and it has a tendency to end up where one wouldn't expect it. Email customer support to get a new one if necessary.
I'm still "working" with the eBay seller (Reynold Dunoiss, TX) of my first Roomba to have him reimburse me. Maybe this week he promised...
This has been going on for four months now at a very very slow pace. We do keep in contact and he explained to me he's moving away from his "retailer eBay business" and needed some time before paying me back. Why not. Eventually if I can't close this matter in a cordial way I'll explore how small claim court works here, I think I've been more than patient right now.
The bottom line: eBay policy is that you only have two months to complain and ask to be reimbursed after a transaction. I tried to be nice with the seller and trusted him when he told me he would pay if I gave him a little bit of time. By doing so I removed myself of the ability to complain via eBay. The lesson would be "don't do that". Trying to call the seller right away and refusing to accept any delay in payment would have probably be more effective. As usual when one's trying to be nice the other use this as an advantage.
On eBay's Answer Center: < Room dead with no warranty >
I bought a Roomba floorvac in May on eBay. The ad promised a non-refurbished unit with full warranty. The Roomba arrived promptly, its condition was fine and it worked very well for some time.
The unit died on me in June and when I tried to have it serviced by the manufacturer IRobot I was told my warranty was void -- their warranty is only for the original purchaser and they don't support units bought on eBay. The only thing the manufacturer offers me was I could buy a new unit for $95.
I think the eBay ad was wrong since it mentioned a full warranty when there was none and I do not think it should be up to me to pay another $95 to have a unit serviced when its warranty should cover it. Thus I contacted the eBay seller, Reynold Dunoiss (TX), and told him about the situation, including the fact I was not thrilled by the idea of paying another $95 and that instead I was rather considering applying for the Buyer Protection Program to get reimbursed.
He eventually replied that he would pay half the $95 cost to get a new Roomba.
Instead I was thinking I could suggest to him that he reimburses for the whole amount of what I paid for the Roomba, and if he wants the unit back he pays for shipping (or I can use it as a bulky doorstop).
What can I do? What should I do? What would you do?
On eBay's Answer Center: < Roomba warranty void when bought on eBay? Advice needed. >
Links:
Next question:
On the eBay page the seller wrote "Comes with full manufacturer warranty".
On the Roomba warranty documentation, it clearly says the warranty is provided to the "original customer purchaser".
From the manufacturer point of view, I did buy it from a 3rd party so I do not have any warranty. That contradicts what the seller advertised.
I'd like to know if this qualifies as a "significantly misrepresented item" under the Buyer Protection Program.
Reading carefully the warranty, it does say indeed covered for the "original customer purchaser". I did buy it from a 3rd party on eBay, it was not iRobot selling it. From my point of view, that 3rd party would be a reseller, like if I was buying it from Bed Bath & Beyond for example. What iRobot customer reps seem to imply is that in fact it is not, although I fail to see the logic there.
Now, reading on forums, they seem to offer a replacement for $95 pretty frequently. Which leads to more questions: if I were to buy that new one, does it extends the 3-month warranty? In either case, do I want to keep spending 100 bucks each time the unit dies? Do I sound disappointed? Probably yes :-)
The funny thing is new models are being introduced and the entry model is $150 (the original Roomba entry model was $200). My guess is I could probably find a non-refurbished unit on eBay soon for less than the $95 replacement fee (actually more than $95 if I must also ship the dead unit back to the manufacturer).
Side anecdote: Shouldn't the eBay reseller be actually liable for the lack of warranty support? His ad clearly said "full warranty" after all.
From Craiglist:
http://www.craigslist.org/com/36978312.html
"A couple months ago I bought a Roomba on eBay.
It since stopped working and when I called the Roomba company regarding the warranty
they told me since I bought it through eBay it’s not covered by warranty.
I spoke with the guy who sold me the Roomba through eBay,
he explicitely wrote "Comes with full manufacturer warranty" on the eBay page
and he says that since he bought it direct from iRobot the warranty should be valid
(it wasn’t secondhand nor refurbished, I bought it new, factory sealed)
but the Roomba people are still saying no.
They claim I'm not the original buyer so I don't have any warranty.
I even spoke with a supervisor at the customer service and all she said she could do was
to sell me a the same model for $100 (I paid $140 for mine).
What should I do?
Can they really refuse to honor the warranty?"
IF you want to see more of the neat beeps and leds of the Roomba:
Not much new here...
I actually got a reply from the Roomba customer support. They are sending me a new charger and battery. I did reply that I don't think it's a battery problem and the guy did agree. We just agreed I should try anyway and if it still doesn't work I should ask for a replacement unit. All that was by email. It took more than 24 hours to get the first email from the support yet after it was fast. Oddly (or not), a replacement unit can only be requested by phone. I guess the lesson here is that customer support is just more efficient by phone -- one either get a reply right away or not.
It's kind of sad that most "customer" related support has to be dealt with only by phone. Consider doctor appointments or asking a medical question to your doctor. Consider having to argue about a bill... Obviously I can imagine the trouble with email sent from an unverified account -- how does my doctor really know its me sending an email and how do I know my email hasn't been trashed by their spam filters? Some web sites such as WaMu or Sprint allow for sending and reading "secure" email from their web site. This solves part of the problem yet it requires a lot of infrastructure and in the end it's still faster to get a reply from the customer service after having been put on hold for 20 mn that to wait 24 or 48 h for a reply to an email request.
Over all I think I do care only because I literally hate to use the phone and procrastinate any formal call I have to do. I generally get an easy excuse by saying here I have a problem and most customer reps do not understand me or I have difficulties understanding them; although there's some truth there, I was procrastinating such calls in France too. Generally speaking I don't like to talk to strangers. Shyness is a far better excuse.
From: roomba-support@iRobot.com To: Ralf Date: 2004/06/24 2:52 PM
Hi Raphael,
Thanks for writing.
I apologize for the inconvenience. I will send you a replacement charger to try and solve your problem. Please allow 5-7 business days for delivery.
If your unit still experiences the same difficulties, you have the option to contact 1-877-855-8593 and speak with a representative regarding the replacement of your unit under warranty.
Roomba Floorvac Customer Support
then...
From: Ralf To: roomba-support@iRobot.com Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 16:43:48 -0700
Hi!
Thanks for writing.
FYI, yesterday I tried to use the Roomba again but it was sitting just dead. Eventually I gave up (there's only so many times one can press the power button :-)). I went back to work somewhere else in the house and suddently I heard a beep that sounded like the Roomba and when I check it out, there it was powered on! (with the buttons lights on and the green battery status indicator, as if the power button at been pressed). Eventually I tried to use it but after a few seconds of vacuuming it turned itself off again.
Although I'm no qualified technician and I am not trained to diagnose a Roomba, I would guess the battery was ok (the battery led was green.) Sounds to me more like a motherboard issue (or whatever you call the logic board inside.)
Anyway, I'll be more than happy to try the new charger if you think it makes a difference.
What is the preferred method to contact customer service? Email or phone? I tend to prefer email yet if you think phone is more efficient I'll do that next time.
Regards
Sometimes I wonder: do all modern appliances break? The ReplayTV is flaky piece of hardware. Given the bad track record of computers, I've always been amazed at how much modern "appliances" that use a lot of electronic seem to work better than standard PC hardware. That was before these were built with such PC-like hardware maybe.
I put the Roomba in the same category than a DVR: it is essentially an embedded computer (call it controller or whatever you like, basically it's a motherboard with plenty of components.) When it works it's just fine. When it stops working it becomes a useless brick that is basically impossible to diagnose.
My Roomba stopped working. That sucks, it means I can't vacuum anymore (and I don't quite feel like using the regular vacuum cleaner, it's no fun anymore!)
Happened last week: after cleaning one of the rooms, it did stop without making the usual "finished" chime. I though maybe the battery was just exhausted and it looked like the room was finished so I put it away to charge for 12 hours.
Then a couple of days ago I tried to use it: I press the power button and... nothing happens. I tried several times of course, made sure there was nothing obvious stuck inside, that the dust bin was empty, and more important that the battery was correctly set in place. Eventually I tried to charge it a little, that didn't change anything. Testing the battery, it delivers about 15 V, which seems to be what it should (the charger says it delivers 14.4 V).
Then a funny thing happened yesterday: I was again checking it out (battery in place, etc.) and nothing worked. I went back to work. Then a couple minutes later I hear a beep. I come back and find the Roomba turned on! (that is not busy working, simply lighted as if the power button had been pressed.)
So I figured what the heck, I opened it (simply removing the cover yet not unplugging anything, that may leave obvious traces if I need to return it). Removed some dust inside; otherwise it looks just fine. Nothing obviously wrong inside. I did check the contacts of the power button with the ohmmeter and it seems to work just fine (that's the only mechanical part I can easily check myself.) By the way, I was pleased to see that the 2 tiny motherboards are placed close to the battery and the design of the top cover makes the area sealed: no dust accumulates in this part, whereas the front part that contains the various motors (brush, vacuum and wheels) is full of dust.
Still no reply to my email to the support. I'll try again and if not will have to call the 1-800 number.
From: Ralf To: roomba-support@irobot.com Date: 6/22/2004 6:03:30 PM Subject: [Roomba-support] Roomba Customer Support - Moll: Roomba Problem Description:
Summary: the Roomba does not turn on when I press the power button on the unit. Details: After using the Roomba last week (it's been working just fine since I got it mid-May), it turned off without making any beep. Pressing the power button did not turn it back on; I though the battery was merely empty so I had it charge for 14 hours (on a timer).
Today I wanted to use it again and the same happens: when I press the power button nothing happens at all, the room size buttons do not light up nor does the battery status led.
I made sure the battery is firmly put in place, the brushes and dust bins have been cleaned.
Note that when the battery was charging, the unit and the battery got slighly warn (nothing suspicious here imho).
I tested the battery and I get 15 V dc between the common plug and the first plug. So my guess is that the battery is correctly put in place and does charge correctly and the problem is somewhere else.
The first week I got my Roomba, I was all happy... Really. It was great.
Here's a copy of my first impression on the Roomba.
To quote David Sedaris, I find a vacuum cleaner a lot more interesting than a guitar :-)
And this one tops them all.
So after a lot of reading on the pros and cons,
I finally got one and I'm not disappointed.
There's some interesting points in this article: http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/may2004/tc2004056_2199_tc_168.htm
I'm not going to give you the "how magical it is" that you can find on any boring (yet useful) review on the net. Here I'm giving my point of view as a geek & software engineer.
Let's say at the first glance I was impressed by the mechanical design.
For detailed pictures of the internals try these sites:
For a retail price of $200 (and a lot less on eBay), it packs a small number of sensors used in most interesting ways. There aren't tons of sensors, but they are cleverly used. The front bumper has a sensor on the top to detect the virtual wall infrared beam. It also has a sensor on the right to help follow a wall. There are sensors under the front bumper to detect holes (stairs' steps).
Also interesting, the wheels are not just statically fixed to the body. They can move up and down by an inch or so. I guess that comes handy to keep traction contact when climbing on a carpet or any other small bump. Incidentally this seems to be used to know when the robot is lifted (it stops).
The shape is round. It seemed just cute at first, until I realized that allows the robot to need only two wheels, one on each side, for propulsion. It will generally turn right over itself when confronted to an obstacle. There's a small non powered wheel in the front, and none at the rear. That seemed odd when I unpacked it, till I put the battery in: it puts the center of gravity between the three wheels. That obviously leaves the rear part free of a clumsy wheel, thus more space for the mechanic of the cleaning brush and dust bin.
Another interesting detail visible at first is that the vacuum block is also not statically fixed to the body. It can oscillate a bit on a transversal axis, which is probably designed to allow it keep the best contact with the surface to be cleaned.
The front bumper has an IR sensor that allows it to follow walls. The sensor is on the right. It becomes obvious when the robot is being used, whenever it finds a wall on its right side it tries to follow it like the stick-to-one-wall strategy to exit a maze. More on that later.
Also visible on the link above is the omnidirectional IR sensor. Very clever. Oddly enough, the virtual wall contains one. I fail to see why it would need to detect, I would have assumed it's enough for it to blindly emit an IR beam.
Under the unit, there's not much to mention except the curious side cleaning brush, a very curious piece of flexible plastic with two little brushes at each end, the whole thing spinning fast. It seems to me like it must bump in one of the wheels at each rotation. Also it seems notably useless on carpet and usable only on hard surfaces.
Navigation.
The most interesting part is of course to see the robot in action. Now remember this is one big blind robot with several white canes. Obviously the front bumper is the major one.
There are obviously several strategies for moving, with obviously randomness added to the process.
One of them is an expanding whirlpool pattern. The robot goes in circles, expanding the radius slowly. The area covered seems to be a circle with a diameter of 3 or 4 feet (then it changes strategies). It seems to generally start with that pattern, which would be an obvious design choice if people are expected to place their cleaner where it matter most for them. Other times after hitting an obstacle the robot just goes straight for a few feet and starts this same whirlpool pattern. Since it can't know what space is left in the room, I would assume the choice is made on what space was covered on a straight line since the last obstacle.
Another strategy is to go straight till it hits a wall and then follow the wall on the right. That generally starts by a 45 degrees turn left, then it kind of goes parallel to the wall, each time getting closer till it hits some kind of threshold, moves a little farther and slowly gets closer and repeats the process. So visually it does a little wobbling kind of a straight line. Actually pretty funny to watch. The distance it keeps from the wall can be adjusted by sliding a knob in the front bumper, close to the IR emitter.
Another interesting strategy, probably related to the previous one: I noticed that when it bumps into a table or chair foot, it tries to go around it. The process involves clumsily turning right, hitting the foot again, getting a bit farther, turning right again, etc. Seems appropriate and effective though.
The rest of the strategy involves doing straight lines, hitting objects softly, changing direction, etc.
Then come the exit strategies. The robot actually tries to get unstuck when it can. It doesn't seem to actually ever backup (based on visual examination and the fact it doesn't have any rear sensors nor rear bumper), but generally the exit strategies seems to focus on turning a bit, see if it hits something, turning some more, maybe turning 180 degrees or in the other direction, etc.
Overall, the path followed by the robot is mostly random, with an emphasis on following things by the right. Most reviews will mention this has disconcerting. From a human point of view watching the little robot bump into basically everything around and going over and over the same area without any idea if it is really clean or not, it may seem so. But from an algorithmic and economic point of view, the behavior seems very logical. This is supposed to do the job with some cheap hardware and software. It does not learn the layout of the room, and it does not sense if the area is already clean or not. Also since friction may not be perfect, it can't assume it is always going in a straigh line, so obviously trying to do parallel runs is not an option. Given the limitations, a random path sounds like the logical choice to try to cover an unknown layout, with some specifically targeted strategies on top of that. The end of a cleaning session is thus determined by time rather than actual room coverage.
So overall it seems like the software is pretty smart given the limitations. The hardware is interesting too. If you accept the limitations of the product as result of economic and engineering considerations, it is overall a really good product (the newer models mostly add a better motor longevity and a directional remote control).
For the first time I'm happy to buy a vacuum cleaner that is actually fun to use and watch.
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